Vantage Point Virtual Speaker Series Banner for Peadar Duffy's "The Future Is Green: Embracing Sustainable Business Practices"

The next Worldwide College of Business Vantage Point Speaker Series event welcomes Archer IRM’s Global ESG Practice Lead and Risk & Governance Expert Peadar Duffy on January 26, 2023, at Noon EST.

Register now to attend this free live webinar.

The Future Is Green: Embracing Sustainable Business Practices

For 2023, the Vantage Point Speaker Series will explore the broader concept of sustainable business practices, particularly in the aviation sector. At a time when our environment and our communities are at increasing risk, what does it mean to do business sustainably? And how can you prepare for a career that embraces corporate social responsibility?

In this live webinar, you’ll hear from risk and governance expert Peadar Duffy. Drawing from 20-plus years of industry experience, Peadar will make the case that to ignore sustainability is to expose business to what may be its biggest risk. Peadar will also share his most salient advice on how you can integrate risk management and sustainability principles into your career.

About the Speaker

Peadar Duffy is an international environmental, social and corporate (ESG) governance and risk expert. As a thought leader with a track record in international collaboration and standards development, Duffy’s leadership roles include serving as the Global ESG Practice Lead at Archer IRM, the world’s largest governance risk compliance (GRC) platform provider; Chairman of the ESG Exchange Technical Committee, which oversees the development of ESG how-to playbooks derived from global regulators, standards setters and corporations; Value Commissioner in the Capitals Coalition; Convener of the ISO Strategic Advisory Group for risk management; and Co-Editor of the ISO Governance of Organizations Standards.

About Vantage Point

The Vantage Point series was created to offer a platform for thought leaders from around the globe to discuss topics that impact and improve business and organizational performance, as well as lead to personal growth.

"Embry-Riddle is in a unique position to establish a series such as this," said Dr. Maneesh Sharma, Dean of Worldwide's College of Business. "We have a worldwide platform that few institutions can match, and we want to break new ground in a positive way by creating a series that strengthens our direct connection to industry."

Watch Previous Vantage Point Sessions

May 17, 2022: Building the ‘Perfect’ Customer Experience with David Edelman, Executive Advisor and Harvard Business School Senior Lecturer

Play Video May 17, 2022: Building the ‘Perfect’ Customer Experience with David Edelman, Executive Advisor and Harvard Business School Senior Lecturer
Play Video, Vantage Point March 29 2022 Video
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Hello.

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Good afternoon.

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Good evening, everyone, and welcome
to this installment of Vantage Point

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Speaker Series hosted by the Worldwide
College of Business.

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The series was created
to increase connections to the industry

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by offering a platform
for thought leaders to discuss topics

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which impact and improve business
and organizational performance.

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As Dean of the College of Business,
I wish you a very, very warm

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welcome, and I'm very excited
to introduce to you a dynamic speaker

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from a, from a very exciting background.

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Mr. David Edelman.

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David is a highly sought-after

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advisor on digital transformation
and marketing strategies.

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He is a developer of foundational 
business concepts,

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including the customer decision
journey and segment-of-one marketing.

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Most recently
as Chief Marketing Officer at Aetna,

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he guided Aetna — now part of CVS Health;
many of you may already know that —

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through becoming a digitally-oriented,
customer-centric enterprise.

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Before Aetna, David built practices
for the Boston Consulting Group

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(otherwise known as BCG), Digitas

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and then for McKinsey & Company
focusing on global digital transformation.

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David has been recognized by Forbes
as one of the most influential

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CMOs in the world,
and by Adweek as one of the top

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20 marketing and technology executives.

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His writing and work have attracted 
over 1.1 million,

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with an M, followers to his LinkedIn blog.

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Wonderful. Impressive.

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And he has delivered dozens and dozens
of keynote presentations and conferences

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around the world.

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Currently, David is a senior lecturer
in marketing at Harvard Business School.

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He also advises CEOs and CXOs in 
health and marketing services,

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focusing on where A.I.

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and personalization unlock
transformational opportunities.

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David, we're so grateful
to have you to share your wisdom with us,

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all of us in the audience,
including faculty and folks from industry.

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So before I turn it over to David,

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I do want to make a point here and mention

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that I invite you,
our viewers, to ask any questions

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you have through the question
and answer icon, please.

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And then Matthew and/or Michelle will be,
will be taking those questions for David.

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And now it is my absolute
pleasure to introduce

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and invite David to the stage.

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David, please, thank you for being here and the 
floor is yours, my friend. Great.

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Well, thank you, Maneesh, and hello, everybody.

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I think it may be best to open up with a story

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because we all have interesting
experiences and to talk theoretically

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about where customer experience is going
without actually talking

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through an experience
just seems way too theoretical.

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So, a few years ago,
not that long ago, probably around 2016,

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my town, Lexington, Massachusetts,
where I live,

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passed an ordinance that gave incentives
to people

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who would be putting in solar panels
into their house.

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And we had been looking into solar panels.

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I had been looking online.

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And that action by the town

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triggered an avalanche

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of emails and mail and all kinds of stuff

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from companies' marketing services
to put in solar panels.

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It was quite a deluge, and it was hard
to figure out what was what.

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A lot of it was just pretty generic
and everybody

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desperately trying to just simply
get an appointment and come into my house.

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And it was hard to figure out who was who.

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But one stood out

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and one piece of mail came to me

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that had a personalized URL.

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The company's name was called Sungevity,

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and when I typed in that URL —

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so this was actual physical mail
that came to me

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that had a URL with my name

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and my address as part of the URL code.

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I was intrigued
to figure out what that might lead to.

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So I typed it into my browser

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and, boom, right in front of me

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was a Google Earth image of my home.

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Superimposed on my home

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were images of solar panels on my roof.

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They had calculated how many solar panels

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could actually fit on my roof,

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and they had a running calculation

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on the side of the image of how much electricity

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those solar panels would generate
based on the angle of my house

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and what they expected to be tree
cover and, I forgot, longitude, latitude.

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But whichever one, wherever
I was, the way the angles of the sun go.

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They also pulled information from Zillow

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about the square footage of my house

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and used that to estimate

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the actual energy consumption
that I would likely have.

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They also knew that my house was serviced
by gas as well as electric,

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so they had taken off
what they thought would be gas-supported.

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And then they calculated how much savings

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I could actually get through solar panels.

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So how much of my electrical use
could actually be displaced

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by solar panels,
which turned out to be 25%.

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For those of you at the school down in Daytona, it could be, I'm sure, a lot more.

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But nonetheless,

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that was significant and interesting to us

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and especially with the incentives
from the town.

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So then after looking at that, it
said, “Click here to talk

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to a representative
who can walk you through

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how those savings actually work.”

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So I click on the link

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and then I am moved immediately

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into a video chat.

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And this was in the very early 
days of video

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talking before COVID
and before Zoom became big.

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And that person immediately,

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he had all of the information about me
right then and there.

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Greeted me by name. “Mr. Edelman.

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I see that we can save you 25%

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of your electricity bill through solar,

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and I'm excited to walk you through
how this actually works.”

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And so I had an extremely

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productive conversation
with this sales rep.

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He asked me a few questions
to just clarify things about my home.

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And in the course of that conversation

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told me about the different ways
that the whole system could be financed.

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And it wasn't that simple because there's
a whole lot of issues around

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you can store electric,
you can send electricity back

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into the grid and get paid for it.

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There are tax incentives.

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All of this adds up and it's
actually not a simple calculation.

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But he walked me through it very calmly,

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visualizing on the side
how that calculation worked.

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Then he explained that there were three

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different kinds of lease options
or an option to buy and how those worked.

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And then he sent me a link to a video

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that would explain in even more depth
about these, and also something

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that I could share with my wife
so we could talk it through.

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So, end of the call, I’ve got the link, and then
I watched the video.

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The video was extremely simple and very clear 
about how the leasing options worked

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and basically after eight years, 
the lease is completely paid off 

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and they pay it off through savings.

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And I won’t get into all the complexities there, 
but it basically was very clear 

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that for eight years I was essentially break even. 

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I wouldn’t save money, but 25% of my solar, 

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of my electrical use,
would be through solar.

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And then after that,
the savings would start accruing.

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And if I didn't,
they would refund the balance to me

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as part of the contract, which by the way,
in a couple of years they actually did.

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Then after the video, you can go back in,

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click and talk to somebody and work 
through the deal.

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He said, “Would you like to talk to some people
in your neighborhood 

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who have, already have the solar panels from Sungevity and worked with us?” Yes! 

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So he sends me the email link to them.

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I didn't know those people
even though they were in my town.

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I send them an email.

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They tell me about the aspects
of the experience.

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It was all extremely positive.

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And so then I sign up, I do it,

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and then they send me a link to an app
which I download

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that gives me all of the updates on
when they're going to come to install it.

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And then that app on an ongoing basis

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becomes the way I would actually track

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all of my energy use, the savings,
if there were any issues,

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and by the way, I did have an issue once
where a squirrel ate a wire.

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They actually sent me an alert right away

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because they could tell
it wasn't generating what it should

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and all the scheduling

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and everything just goes
incredibly smoothly through that app.

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It was... or we are going to judge brands
and, in fact, we're already doing it,

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based on the seamlessness
of the experience

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that we, that they offer,
through all the stages

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of what a customer journey might be,
the quality of the information

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and how that information
is used along the way,

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the amount of time and effort

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that we have to use, or better yet,

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don't have to put in.

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And then the accessibility over time

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in case there's any kinds of issues

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or things like that, the ability
to communicate and go back and forth

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and actually have some kind of tether
with the company that is credible.

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And all of those kinds of aspects
are things

00:11:03:09 - 00:11:06:20
that go into our minds

00:11:06:20 - 00:11:11:19


as we evaluate more and more of the brands
who we want to do business with.

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It’s certainly the basis of brands
such as Uber, AirBNB

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and newer brands that are able to do this

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kind of customer
journey design from scratch

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and build their whole system
and value proposition based on that.

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But increasingly,

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I'm starting to see this pop up in health care,

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in telecom, in financial services,

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starting in travel,

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although there's a lot of

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different parties to coordinate in travel,
which is true also in health care,

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but it is definitely becoming a way
that more and more companies

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are challenging themselves
to be more customer-centric.

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And by customer-centric,
it means taking the attitude

00:12:03:10 - 00:12:08:20
of the customer, looking at all
the different points of that journey

00:12:08:20 - 00:12:13:06
and figuring out how to use information

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and process to string that together

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into a distinctive experience.

00:12:19:21 - 00:12:21:11
Doing so, though,

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is not just a question
of having the cool A.I. algorithms.

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Sungevity had to sort through the data
from Google Earth and from Zillow

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and to put that all together.

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Yes, that was an A.I.-type capability

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that they used to scan
and spot houses for whom

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the economics would work.

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But it also means having the right

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kind of processes in place,

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really linking things all together
so that the handoffs are clear.

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And let me give you a contrasting example
where this doesn't, didn't work.

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My daughter,

00:13:03:16 - 00:13:08:18
a few, about three,
just before COVID, was in a program,

00:13:08:18 - 00:13:13:02
an exchange program for college,
and was over in Paris.

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My wife and I decided
we would go over and visit

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her and the host family
that she was staying with.

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I got a credit card
from one of the major banks

00:13:21:22 - 00:13:25:20
that seemed to market itself based on

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being useful for travelers.
You get extra points

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if you use it for plane
tickets, you get free foreign exchange.

00:13:32:18 - 00:13:36:02
And it seemed like
it was perfectly designed for travelers.

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So I got the credit card.

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I used it to buy the flight to Paris.

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We land in Paris.

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I go to use the card
to buy some chocolates in a beautiful

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chocolate store in Paris, and immediately
I hit a brick wall because it's

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the first time I'm using this credit card
and I'm using it in a foreign country.

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Well,

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isn't that the purpose of the credit card?

00:13:59:11 - 00:14:01:05
Didn't they have the data?

00:14:01:05 - 00:14:03:16
Because I bought the plane ticket?

00:14:03:16 - 00:14:07:11
Couldn't they have sent me
even just a text and said, 

00:14:07:11 - 00:14:12:00
“Is this really you?”
But no, the charge was rejected,

00:14:12:00 - 00:14:15:20
and I was told to call
the phone number on the card.

00:14:15:20 - 00:14:20:08


So I had to step out of the store,
and it was just an incredible hassle.

00:14:20:08 - 00:14:21:07
But it's a perfect

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example of where different
functional groups have not been working

00:14:26:00 - 00:14:31:21
together to create a seamless experience.

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And so that is a huge part

00:14:34:16 - 00:14:38:03
of thinking from the customer's lens.

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And there are companies now
and one that I'm going to talk about,

00:14:41:14 - 00:14:46:02
Comcast, who are trying to make big strides

00:14:46:02 - 00:14:51:00
in rethinking the whole way
they interact with customers.

00:14:51:00 - 00:14:55:16
Comcast is not a brand
from a legacy perspective that had

00:14:55:16 - 00:15:00:02
a great image in the minds of people
from a customer service perspective.

00:15:00:02 - 00:15:02:21
It even led to a movie called 

00:15:02:21 - 00:15:06:08
The Cable Guy that wasn't terribly
flattering about the people

00:15:06:08 - 00:15:10:08
who might come to your house
to deal with your cable TV.

00:15:10:08 - 00:15:14:17
And they knew that this was an issue.
It was an issue,

00:15:14:17 - 00:15:18:02
especially as new competition
was going to come in

00:15:18:02 - 00:15:21:04
from the likes of AT&T and Verizon,

00:15:21:04 - 00:15:24:10
so they would have less of a monopoly
in most of their markets.

00:15:24:10 - 00:15:26:03
They needed to up their game.

00:15:26:03 - 00:15:31:21
They also wanted to get into mobile
telephony and offer Xfinity Mobile.

00:15:31:21 - 00:15:36:06
And so they had to find an angle
and customer service

00:15:36:06 - 00:15:42:00


was the most obvious one if they weren't
going to just simply compete on cost.

00:15:42:00 - 00:15:43:18
So they started

00:15:43:18 - 00:15:48:01
looking at the key types of customer journeys

00:15:48:01 - 00:15:53:19
that would make a difference,
and several come to mind: doing a move.

00:15:53:19 - 00:15:57:19
So you're going to move your house,
you want to be able to move your account,

00:15:57:19 - 00:16:02:15
you want to be able to move access
to your cable TV

00:16:02:15 - 00:16:05:01
and to your internet,
and you want to be able to do that

00:16:05:01 - 00:16:08:08
seamlessly. There's a lot of different parties

00:16:08:08 - 00:16:14:01
involved in that: billing, installation,
possibly credit.

00:16:14:01 - 00:16:18:20
All of those have to be strung together
to make that work.

00:16:18:20 - 00:16:23:08
They also realized
that a lot of the marketing that they did

00:16:23:08 - 00:16:28:02
was leading to dissatisfaction
when people had their first bill

00:16:28:02 - 00:16:31:03
because they didn't
understand charges on that bill

00:16:31:03 - 00:16:35:08
and they thought they were getting
certain deals that weren't very clear,

00:16:35:08 - 00:16:40:01
and so there would be dissatisfaction
and a lot of calls into the 

00:16:40:01 - 00:16:43:07


customer service center
when people got their first bill.

00:16:43:07 - 00:16:45:05
So they started looking at a journey

00:16:45:05 - 00:16:49:02
which was from marketing to first bill,

00:16:49:02 - 00:16:52:11
and that has a whole end-to-end

00:16:52:11 - 00:16:57:01
series of different functional groups
that work together,

00:16:57:01 - 00:16:59:17
and especially onboarding,

00:16:59:17 - 00:17:03:05
when someone actually becomes
a new customer.

00:17:03:05 - 00:17:06:00
Let's show them, for example,

00:17:06:00 - 00:17:09:23
a video, a customized video
that explains to them

00:17:09:23 - 00:17:14:11


what it is they're actually 
getting and how it all works.

00:17:14:11 - 00:17:16:17
And they have made tremendous strides

00:17:16:17 - 00:17:20:21
in terms of their net
promoter score, their retention rate.

00:17:20:21 - 00:17:25:09
And when they launched Xfinity Mobile
using this whole philosophy

00:17:25:09 - 00:17:29:17
of journeys from scratch, within two years
they became the top 

00:17:29:17 - 00:17:33:23
J.D. Power pick in terms of 
customer service in mobile

00:17:33:23 - 00:17:38:12
telephony for three years straight,
which they still have today.

00:17:38:12 - 00:17:45:14


So there's a mindset to customer
experience that you have to get into.

00:17:45:14 - 00:17:47:19
But there's also new capabilities,

00:17:47:19 - 00:17:52:16
especially data capabilities,
that are now coming to the fore.

00:17:52:16 - 00:17:56:15
I'm going to share a few,
not many, slides with you

00:17:56:15 - 00:18:01:10
that explain capabilities
that are making this

00:18:01:10 - 00:18:06:11
managing of journeys a lot easier to do.

00:18:06:11 - 00:18:12:19
So can we just get this up on the screen?

00:18:12:19 - 00:18:17:08
Okay, that's. There we go. Okay.

00:18:17:08 - 00:18:22:01
So the first I want to talk about
is a company called

00:18:22:01 - 00:18:28:00


SundaySky that enables you
to create those personalized videos.

00:18:28:00 - 00:18:30:14
When I was Chief
Marketing Officer at Aetna,

00:18:30:14 - 00:18:36:07
we realized health
insurance is unbelievably complicated.

00:18:36:07 - 00:18:40:17
When you sign up for health insurance,
you don't really understand

00:18:40:17 - 00:18:45:05
premiums, co-pays,
co-insurance, deductibles.

00:18:45:05 - 00:18:50:23
We did a survey of people, members,
to see if they understood those terms.

00:18:50:23 - 00:18:55:20
Maybe 10% understood all four accurately.

00:18:55:20 - 00:18:58:11
And because they don't understand it,
they do things like

00:18:58:11 - 00:19:02:06


go to doctors out of network
or they don't understand bills.

00:19:02:06 - 00:19:03:16
They are unhappy.

00:19:03:16 - 00:19:08:05
They call in,
aspects of their care could suffer.

00:19:08:05 - 00:19:10:18
And so we used SundaySky

00:19:10:18 - 00:19:15:22
to create personalized videos
for every member

00:19:15:22 - 00:19:19:18
to explain their specific health plan.

00:19:19:18 - 00:19:22:08
70% of people to whom we sent the link

00:19:22:08 - 00:19:27:11
to watched the four-minute video
all the way through,

00:19:27:11 - 00:19:31:13
and those people who watched
it churned at a lower rate,

00:19:31:13 - 00:19:35:20
way fewer calls into the call center
and interestingly

00:19:35:20 - 00:19:39:09



spent less time in the emergency room.

00:19:39:09 - 00:19:41:10
Because one of the things we talked about

00:19:41:10 - 00:19:45:18
was we gave people addresses
of local urgent care centers

00:19:45:18 - 00:19:50:05
that were in-network that they could go to
that were near them

00:19:50:05 - 00:19:53:20
so that they wouldn't
have to go to an emergency room.

00:19:53:20 - 00:19:57:03
Here's a very simple example
of how SundaySky works.

00:19:57:03 - 00:20:00:04
This is for a company called Naked Wines,
so it doesn't

00:20:00:04 - 00:20:03:09
necessarily have to just be big companies.
And here's an example of it

00:20:03:09 - 00:20:08:21
being used from a sales perspective
for animating a digital ad

00:20:08:21 - 00:20:12:18
where first you have an opening scene
that based on data

00:20:12:18 - 00:20:15:05
you may have about this person
from the past,

00:20:15:05 - 00:20:18:11
whether they like white wine,
red wine, mixed wine,

00:20:18:11 - 00:20:21:00
the opening scene, then, depending

00:20:21:00 - 00:20:25:20
on the mindset of the individual,
whether they're high-end and what they

00:20:25:20 - 00:20:30:06
bought before. And then the third scene
is a customized call to action.

00:20:30:06 - 00:20:34:01
What kind of discount or incentive
would you give them?

00:20:34:01 - 00:20:38:21
Or maybe you don't need one at all,
depending on the situation.

00:20:38:21 - 00:20:42:14
And so being able to do this at scale

00:20:42:14 - 00:20:46:10
with video capabilities and they already have

00:20:46:10 - 00:20:50:03
tons of pre-filmed scenes
that you can use,

00:20:50:03 - 00:20:52:22


they have access to the Getty Library,
and things like that.

00:20:52:22 - 00:20:56:19
It opens up a very different way
of thinking about interactions

00:20:56:19 - 00:20:59:22
because video is so much more powerful

00:20:59:22 - 00:21:03:01
than text.

00:21:03:01 - 00:21:07:07
The next one I want to talk about
is a company called OfferFit,

00:21:07:07 - 00:21:11:16
and if you happen to see I authored,
coauthored

00:21:11:16 - 00:21:14:13
a recent article in the Harvard
Business Review just a couple of months ago

00:21:14:13 - 00:21:18:10
called Customer Experience in the Age of A.I.
And the opening

00:21:18:10 - 00:21:22:11
vignette of that is OfferFit

00:21:22:11 - 00:21:26:01
working with Brinks Home Security.

00:21:26:01 - 00:21:28:18
And what OfferFit does is

00:21:28:18 - 00:21:33:06
it allows you to test all kinds

00:21:33:06 - 00:21:39:14
of possible variations of the message,
the content, the pictures,

00:21:39:14 - 00:21:44:16
the timing, the channel in order
to accomplish some goal with the customer.

00:21:44:16 - 00:21:46:07
In the case of Brinks,

00:21:46:07 - 00:21:50:01
one of their most important things
is people renewing their contract

00:21:50:01 - 00:21:55:16
for home security, and they used to
just do a very simple A/B test

00:21:55:16 - 00:22:00:06
to try two different variations
and maybe two different kinds

00:22:00:06 - 00:22:04:22
of discounts. But the reality is there's
so many different variables.

00:22:04:22 - 00:22:06:22
Some people may not need a discount.

00:22:06:22 - 00:22:11:03
Some people, maybe if you just bundle in
and upgrade to wireless,

00:22:11:03 - 00:22:12:21
you can get them to do it.

00:22:12:21 - 00:22:17:13
Depending on the time of
when you should send it, it could vary.

00:22:17:13 - 00:22:21:14
And so this is massive
multivariate testing,

00:22:21:14 - 00:22:27:17
essentially automated experimentation
of innovation,

00:22:27:17 - 00:22:29:22
and it's using A.I.

00:22:29:22 - 00:22:34:18
to structure the tests,
figure out all the different test cells.

00:22:34:18 - 00:22:38:01
You decide the variations
you want to test.

00:22:38:01 - 00:22:41:04
OfferFit decides the combinations,
and then

00:22:41:04 - 00:22:44:19
based on data about individuals,
how to set up the test cells,

00:22:44:19 - 00:22:49:19
it looks at how people respond,
and it continuously optimizes

00:22:49:19 - 00:22:54:20
and you can keep putting in more
and more different variations.

00:22:54:20 - 00:23:01:05
And what you see here with Brinks
is basically a 4x

00:23:01:05 - 00:23:05:06
ROI on what they had been doing before.

00:23:05:06 - 00:23:09:06
And the CEO, Bill Niles of Home Brinks,

00:23:09:06 - 00:23:12:01
they're actually on tour
talking about this

00:23:12:01 - 00:23:16:22
and how he's transforming his company
around using A.I.

00:23:16:22 - 00:23:20:00
and combining that with a journey view

00:23:20:00 - 00:23:24:04
to now take this and use this
to take people all the way through,

00:23:24:04 - 00:23:27:17


through an installation,
a service journey.

00:23:27:17 - 00:23:32:02
And he's really thinking about
customer experience and personalization

00:23:32:02 - 00:23:36:15
at a whole new level,
armed with this kind of artificial

00:23:36:15 - 00:23:40:18
intelligence capability.

00:23:40:18 - 00:23:45:19
And then the last one I'd like to talk
about is a company called Pointillist.

00:23:45:19 - 00:23:49:04
Pointillist allows you to see

00:23:49:04 - 00:23:53:20
what's actually happening
in customer journeys.

00:23:53:20 - 00:23:55:14
So they use A.I.

00:23:55:14 - 00:23:58:13
in two different ways, two different A.I.

00:23:58:13 - 00:24:00:06
engines. The first A.I.

00:24:00:06 - 00:24:03:06
engine finds an individual

00:24:03:06 - 00:24:06:13
across all the different databases

00:24:06:13 - 00:24:12:07
that the marketer makes available.
So Comcast uses this.

00:24:12:07 - 00:24:17:01
They have embedded Pointillist across — 
so looking across

00:24:17:01 - 00:24:21:11
their billing system, their service history system,

00:24:21:11 - 00:24:27:19
even what people actually click on
when they're using their cable TV,

00:24:27:19 - 00:24:30:23
their marketing contacts, all of that,

00:24:30:23 - 00:24:34:17
they're all in separate databases,
they're all in different schema.

00:24:34:17 - 00:24:37:10
And instead of creating a grand new

00:24:37:10 - 00:24:41:01
grandmaster, integrated, all singing,

00:24:41:01 - 00:24:45:01
all dancing database,
Pointillist can actually use A.I.

00:24:45:01 - 00:24:48:15
to go in and find matches

00:24:48:15 - 00:24:52:01
based on a percentage
likelihood of somebody being a match

00:24:52:01 - 00:24:55:08


because of various things
that are likely to be in common.

00:24:55:08 - 00:24:59:14
And it assembles the database
on the fly of all the touches

00:24:59:14 - 00:25:04:23
that you've had and timestamps them
and puts them in a sequence.

00:25:04:23 - 00:25:07:20
And so you actually see
the customer journey

00:25:07:20 - 00:25:11:08
and you can look at it
at an individual level

00:25:11:08 - 00:25:16:01
where you can see
what happened to somebody specifically.

00:25:16:01 - 00:25:17:19
So, for example,

00:25:17:19 - 00:25:21:03
if a person had a problem
and calls into a call center rep,

00:25:21:03 - 00:25:25:06
that rep can immediately
know where the customer had been before

00:25:25:06 - 00:25:29:16
and what the problem had likely been
and have a prompt popped up right away

00:25:29:16 - 00:25:34:02


of what they should do
by the time they even answer the call.

00:25:34:02 - 00:25:38:04
Or you can look at it
in aggregate and spot broader problems

00:25:38:04 - 00:25:41:16
such as calls from people who are trying

00:25:41:16 - 00:25:45:20
to use the Android version of the...

00:25:45:20 - 00:25:48:22
are spiking now in the call center.

00:25:48:22 - 00:25:50:22
Well, why is that?

00:25:50:22 - 00:25:52:14
Do they have a problem paying the bill?

00:25:52:14 - 00:25:55:18
What's going on? But it is spiking.

00:25:55:18 - 00:25:58:20
Oh, we just launched a new version.

00:25:58:20 - 00:26:03:23
We just got that out. Maybe there's a bug in the Android version of our app.

00:26:03:23 - 00:26:07:22
We better deal with it,
and you get an immediate alert

00:26:07:22 - 00:26:09:18
and you can fix it.

00:26:09:18 - 00:26:15:14
And then actually see using this tool what
happened to people after you fixed it?

00:26:15:14 - 00:26:16:23
You can also

00:26:16:23 - 00:26:21:02
use this tool to come up with new ideas
for different kinds of journeys,

00:26:21:02 - 00:26:26:01
inserting new kinds of content pages
or videos in an experience,

00:26:26:01 - 00:26:31:21
and seeing whether that personalized video
that you just put in during onboarding

00:26:31:21 - 00:26:35:21
actually does in fact 
drive people to better behaviors

00:26:35:21 - 00:26:42:00
versus calling into the call center.
You can literally see that and track it.

00:26:42:00 - 00:26:45:00
So this is a breakthrough to be able

00:26:45:00 - 00:26:51:01
to actually see, understand
and manage journeys.

00:26:51:01 - 00:26:54:08
And so that's really the philosophy

00:26:54:08 - 00:26:57:17
that I want to make sure

00:26:57:17 - 00:27:01:02
everybody starts to get their heads around

00:27:01:02 - 00:27:06:00
because it's not just about
what happened in the call center.

00:27:06:00 - 00:27:10:15
So I got, when I was turned down
for that credit card,

00:27:10:15 - 00:27:14:11
when I talked about being
in the chocolate shop in Paris,

00:27:14:11 - 00:27:17:06
I received a survey asking me

00:27:17:06 - 00:27:22:07
how I felt about the interaction
with the rep, and they asked me

00:27:22:07 - 00:27:25:04
did she know what, was she efficient,
was she good? 

00:27:25:04 - 00:27:26:11
Yes, she was.

00:27:26:11 - 00:27:29:22
She was doing what she should be doing
and it was perfectly fine,

00:27:29:22 - 00:27:33:07
but I shouldn't have had
to do it in the first place.

00:27:33:07 - 00:27:34:16
It was looking at

00:27:34:16 - 00:27:37:11
a very narrow aspect of the experience

00:27:37:11 - 00:27:41:06
and not at the total journey.

00:27:41:06 - 00:27:46:09
And so this linkage
between thinking about journeys

00:27:46:09 - 00:27:53:05
and taking advantage of new technology
capabilities is what is fostering

00:27:53:05 - 00:27:56:05
breakthroughs in customer experience

00:27:56:05 - 00:27:58:22
that are already driving

00:27:58:22 - 00:28:02:23


breakthroughs
in terms of brand preference.

00:28:02:23 - 00:28:07:07
And so I'm a former consultant,
worked at McKinsey, in BCG,

00:28:07:07 - 00:28:11:07
and we like to come up with cute
little acronyms.

00:28:11:07 - 00:28:15:00
So it's a way to make it easy to talk

00:28:15:00 - 00:28:19:22
about the steps involved
in actually pursuing something like this.

00:28:19:22 - 00:28:24:19
So using the acronym IDEAL,

00:28:24:19 - 00:28:26:07
five things to keep in mind.

00:28:26:07 - 00:28:30:11
Now I realize these are at a high level,
but if you actually think through

00:28:30:11 - 00:28:36:00


what it would take to do, you can get
 down to a much more concrete action plan.

00:28:36:00 - 00:28:39:06
The first is thinking about how you can

00:28:39:06 - 00:28:42:17
integrate, manage and draw insights

00:28:42:17 - 00:28:46:19
from a much broader range of data signals.

00:28:46:19 - 00:28:51:18
So in the case of Sungevity,
they knew that

00:28:51:18 - 00:28:56:12
my town just passed
something that gave incentives for solar.

00:28:56:12 - 00:28:58:21
They looked at Google Earth

00:28:58:21 - 00:29:03:18
to find homes
that might be suitable for solar.

00:29:03:18 - 00:29:08:07
They used Zillow to figure out the percent.
So all of that

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:14:03
was quite a broad range of data signals
that they were able to pull together.

00:29:14:03 - 00:29:16:17
Then think about what would

00:29:16:17 - 00:29:19:16
the right seamless experience be

00:29:19:16 - 00:29:24:02
that can be powered by automated support.

00:29:24:02 - 00:29:28:22
So the flow of what I experienced
at Sungevity, I spoke with their Chief

00:29:28:22 - 00:29:33:03


Marketing Officer and she told me,
you know, it didn't happen overnight.

00:29:33:03 - 00:29:37:16
They had a general sense
of what they should do, but it took a lot

00:29:37:16 - 00:29:40:17
of very deliberate trial and error

00:29:40:17 - 00:29:45:20
working things through, training the reps,
figuring out the right way

00:29:45:20 - 00:29:51:09
to do the interfaces for the customer,
for the reps, the design of all of that.

00:29:51:09 - 00:29:54:22
But they were determined to make it flow.

00:29:54:22 - 00:30:00:19
Their whole approach was that
this was going to be a seamless journey

00:30:00:19 - 00:30:04:10
that would never hit a dead end,
where the customer would never have

00:30:04:10 - 00:30:09:22
to give us a whole bunch
of new information. It would just flow.

00:30:09:22 - 00:30:11:07
Then you

00:30:11:07 - 00:30:15:20
got to reach out to the customer
wherever they are, and make it clear

00:30:15:20 - 00:30:19:19
that the way you're interacting with them
is of value,

00:30:19:19 - 00:30:24:20
and the way you're using
data will be a strong indicator of that.

00:30:24:20 - 00:30:29:10
So sending me a personalized URL
with information of how

00:30:29:10 - 00:30:33:20
I can save on solar — that is extremely powerful.

00:30:33:20 - 00:30:37:04
So sending me a personalized video

00:30:37:04 - 00:30:39:20
that helps me understand my health plan.

00:30:39:20 - 00:30:41:15
That's something that has value.

00:30:41:15 - 00:30:43:15
Okay, the recording's back...

00:30:43:15 - 00:30:50:03
in a company is how to bring that
into the philosophy of management

00:30:50:03 - 00:30:55:11
and make it just part of the way people,
I think... news services...

00:30:55:11 - 00:30:59:04
When I look at companies
who have been putting this together,

00:30:59:04 - 00:31:03:03
generally I think about it as 70%...

00:31:03:03 - 00:31:06:18
about 20% is about the data

00:31:06:18 - 00:31:11:16
and making sure you're being disciplined
and deliberate about the data.

00:31:11:16 - 00:31:13:15
And then 10%...

00:31:13:15 - 00:31:18:02
good technology, but you can do a lot
for many companies with technology.

00:31:18:02 - 00:31:21:09
They may already... the organization stuff

00:31:21:09 - 00:31:25:14
because I think that's one of 
the biggest challenges. 

00:31:25:14 - 00:31:28:03
If you remember when I was talking

00:31:28:03 - 00:31:31:18
about... and we did the same thing at Aetna.

00:31:31:18 - 00:31:36:14
It's around bringing people together
to look at a journey

00:31:36:14 - 00:31:40:09
and actually in some respects
thinking about the journey

00:31:40:09 - 00:31:43:19
as a product that you offer

00:31:43:19 - 00:31:48:15
where there's a... from different functions.

00:31:48:15 - 00:31:51:05
It could be led by a marketing strategist,

00:31:51:05 - 00:31:55:20


it could be led by somebody from product...
be led by service ops.

00:31:55:20 - 00:31:59:01
Probably, though, either

00:31:59:01 - 00:32:05:05
the product or form is usually where
that happens, where there is a team around

00:32:05:05 - 00:32:09:15
that person of people who are doing analytics,

00:32:09:15 - 00:32:14:06
they're doing design, they're doing,
there's marketing operations,

00:32:14:06 - 00:32:18:16
then there's service
and there's digital operations

00:32:18:16 - 00:32:23:20
depending on what's needed in
that journey, they are working together.

00:32:23:20 - 00:32:28:16


It could be physically, although in today's world, you know, it'll be virtually.

00:32:28:16 - 00:32:33:05
But they have goals together working,

00:32:33:05 - 00:32:37:02
and so they are trying to hit certain targets

00:32:37:02 - 00:32:40:17
in terms of what they want to accomplish
with their journeys,

00:32:40:17 - 00:32:44:13
such as, you know,
reducing the number of call centers.

00:32:44:13 - 00:32:46:12
That's a very popular one.

00:32:46:12 - 00:32:50:18
How do we cut the volume of calls
not just from a cost perspective

00:32:50:18 - 00:32:54:09


because often it's
a dissatisfaction as well,

00:32:54:09 - 00:32:57:01
and how or are there

00:32:57:01 - 00:33:01:01
positive actions
that we want to get people to take?

00:33:01:01 - 00:33:04:02
And how do we design the journey
to get people

00:33:04:02 - 00:33:06:22
to take those positive actions,
such as, in our case,

00:33:06:22 - 00:33:10:05
use an urgent care center
instead of the E.R.

00:33:10:05 - 00:33:13:07
So there's all kinds of things 
like that where

00:33:13:07 - 00:33:17:02
the team is working together
on a set of goals,

00:33:17:02 - 00:33:23:03
but doing that to work together
requires thinking from an organization

00:33:23:03 - 00:33:26:10


perspective of how you're going to 
make that work,

00:33:26:10 - 00:33:30:10
allocating people to the journeys to focus.

00:33:30:10 - 00:33:33:07
So Comcast has about 13 different journeys

00:33:33:07 - 00:33:36:15
that has teams organized against

00:33:36:15 - 00:33:40:00
and that's a very powerful concept to them.

00:33:40:00 - 00:33:44:14
And the incentives for those people
are primarily based on the performance

00:33:44:14 - 00:33:45:06
of their journeys.

00:33:45:06 - 00:33:46:19

They're looking at data,

00:33:46:19 - 00:33:50:02
they have eyes on Pointillist 
every day, looking at

00:33:50:02 - 00:33:53:19
what's going on in those journeys
and seeing what they've got to do.

00:33:53:19 - 00:33:57:14
They have processes behind them
so that when things screw up,

00:33:57:14 - 00:34:01:01
they know who to call and stuff
gets done quickly.

00:34:01:01 - 00:34:05:07
They have hotlines to the right people
who can fix things.

00:34:05:07 - 00:34:10:15
They also have legal support on call
so they don't have to wait

00:34:10:15 - 00:34:14:14
forever for compliance and legal review
to get things out the door.

00:34:14:14 - 00:34:19:01
So things are organized towards journeys
and towards speed,

00:34:19:01 - 00:34:23:22
and that's a big difference for many companies.

00:34:23:22 - 00:34:25:08
Thank you, David.

00:34:25:08 - 00:34:26:06
You know,

00:34:26:06 - 00:34:30:20
one of the things that you were talking 
about and this actually dovetails 

00:34:30:20 - 00:34:35:04
into another question is, is there such a thing
as information overload,

00:34:35:04 - 00:34:39:00
speaking to the amount of testing and
data that is collected?

00:34:39:00 - 00:34:40:05
And do you have any advice for what

00:34:40:05 - 00:34:46:04
data points are most important
to understanding the customer experience?

00:34:46:04 - 00:34:50:08
Yeah, there, certainly you could have data overload, 

00:34:50:08 - 00:34:53:19
especially if you're looking through
it manually.

00:34:53:19 - 00:34:57:16
One of the interesting things that a lot
of these A.I. tools now are starting to

00:34:57:16 - 00:35:04:03
do is use that data productively and insulate 
you from that data, 

00:35:04:03 - 00:35:09:16
providing insights, graphic renditions
of what's going on, things that can help

00:35:09:16 - 00:35:14:18
you understand what's going on without you
having to be as dirty on the data.

00:35:14:18 - 00:35:16:14
So, for example, Comcast

00:35:16:14 - 00:35:21:21
saw how many data scientists,
if they were going to scale journeys,

00:35:21:21 - 00:35:24:22
they would likely need to do all the analytics.

00:35:24:22 - 00:35:30:00
And with Pointillist, they did not have to
grow the number anywhere near as much.

00:35:30:00 - 00:35:31:03
They didn't let anyone go.

00:35:31:03 - 00:35:34:07
They still needed to hire, of course,
but nowhere near the scale

00:35:34:07 - 00:35:39:08
they had originally estimated because
the tools were able to take care of it.

00:35:39:08 - 00:35:44:06
In terms of what data to look at,
you know, it depends a lot

00:35:44:06 - 00:35:47:05
on the design of the journeys

00:35:47:05 - 00:35:51:06
that you're looking at. Generally, I find

00:35:51:06 - 00:35:52:02
there's

00:35:52:02 - 00:35:54:21
three things that you should always
keep in mind.

00:35:54:21 - 00:35:57:03
One is context.

00:35:57:03 - 00:36:03:21
What data do you have about
where somebody is in their journey?

00:36:03:21 - 00:36:06:03
What was the last thing they clicked on?

00:36:06:03 - 00:36:09:15
What was the last thing
they called in about?

00:36:09:15 - 00:36:12:04
Where is somebody?

00:36:12:04 - 00:36:16:19


That is often a trigger for some kind of follow 
up action in a journey.

00:36:16:19 - 00:36:21:10
The second is
anything about the customer's history

00:36:21:10 - 00:36:26:18
and preferences, what they have responded
to, what has worked for them,

00:36:26:18 - 00:36:32:02
how they have, you know, any kind
of promotional activity, all of that.

00:36:32:02 - 00:36:38:00
And then the other part of data
is on the back end, understanding

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:41:03
what's happened, being able to measure

00:36:41:03 - 00:36:44:03
the outcome of what you are doing.

00:36:44:03 - 00:36:46:12
So there's input, there's output.

00:36:46:12 - 00:36:50:10
You know, you've got garbage
in, garbage out, but you got to be able

00:36:50:10 - 00:36:56:01


to really think about the data on
both sides of the actions you're taking.

00:36:56:01 - 00:36:57:18
Thank you, David.

00:36:57:18 - 00:37:00:16
You know, one of the things that you mentioned

00:37:00:16 - 00:37:05:01
was getting as much information
from your customers as possible.

00:37:05:01 - 00:37:10:02
And Apple has certainly taken some steps to, to

00:37:10:02 - 00:37:12:08
keep customer information private.

00:37:12:08 - 00:37:17:16
And in the future, that may become
even more so as more companies do that.

00:37:17:16 - 00:37:21:18
So some potential customers may engage
in activities to prevent marketers

00:37:21:18 - 00:37:27:11
from finding personal information about
the individual, such as using certain

00:37:27:11 - 00:37:31:23
platforms that allow it, or by disguising
their real estate purchases

00:37:31:23 - 00:37:36:15
through trusts or whatever. Do companies
recognize some of these individuals

00:37:36:15 - 00:37:40:20
are offended by the use of their data
and using their personal information?

00:37:40:20 - 00:37:42:23



And what do they do about it?

00:37:42:23 - 00:37:44:01
Absolutely.

00:37:44:01 - 00:37:46:11
Every time I talk about this.

00:37:46:11 - 00:37:49:06
Privacy is huge.

00:37:49:06 - 00:37:52:03
There are a few things to think about.

00:37:52:03 - 00:37:57:04
One is first is the difference between
first-party data and third-party data.

00:37:57:04 - 00:37:59:19
So the vast majority of the examples

00:37:59:19 - 00:38:04:23
that I gave were first-party data.

00:38:04:23 - 00:38:07:15
Now what Sungevity did in terms

00:38:07:15 - 00:38:11:11
of looking at Google Earth images
and looking at Zillow,

00:38:11:11 - 00:38:17:08
that is third-party data,
but it's out there and it's skimmable

00:38:17:08 - 00:38:19:17
and they're putting it together to create

00:38:19:17 - 00:38:23:05
some kind of value.

00:38:23:05 - 00:38:26:19
Browsing history
or things that you've done in media,

00:38:26:19 - 00:38:31:18
your use of one app and selling that data
to another... Yeah, third party.

00:38:31:18 - 00:38:34:04
Third party. Cookie deprecation is real.

00:38:34:04 - 00:38:35:05
It's going to grow.

00:38:35:05 - 00:38:39:16
It's already taken $10 billion
out of Facebook's pocket.

00:38:39:16 - 00:38:41:14
So it's important

00:38:41:14 - 00:38:44:21
to get first-party data
as much as possible.

00:38:44:21 - 00:38:48:18
So in the process of interacting
with people,

00:38:48:18 - 00:38:52:16
making sure that you can actually

00:38:52:16 - 00:38:56:01
get their preferences
and open up access to their data

00:38:56:01 - 00:38:59:15
because you're offering them
something in exchange. 

00:38:59:15 - 00:39:06:00
Too often. I find that a lot of the asking for
permission to use people's data just says,

00:39:06:00 - 00:39:10:05
"Yeah, it's just a box to click."
You know, you'll get marketing stuff.

00:39:10:05 - 00:39:13:12
Better ones would actually say, you know,

00:39:13:12 - 00:39:17:14
“Would you let us use your data
to improve your access

00:39:17:14 - 00:39:20:14
to health care providers
in your neighborhood?”

00:39:20:14 - 00:39:23:08
or things like that and get more

00:39:23:08 - 00:39:29:03
value into that... 
So frankly, what we've seen in there,

00:39:29:03 - 00:39:31:20
actually there was a very interesting
survey done

00:39:31:20 - 00:39:35:16
by Google and BCG about people's attitudes
towards information use

00:39:35:16 - 00:39:41:03
and the general sense was
if it's really adding value to me versus

00:39:41:03 - 00:39:46:20
just creepily trying to pitch me things,
I like that.

00:39:46:20 - 00:39:50:01
That's what I would expect you to do.

00:39:50:01 - 00:39:51:06
If I'm,

00:39:51:06 - 00:39:54:10
you know, a bank customer
who repeatedly goes over my balance,

00:39:54:10 - 00:39:58:11
help me find a way to manage my financials

00:39:58:11 - 00:40:05:10
in a smarter way.
So people expect that more and more.

00:40:05:10 - 00:40:08:04
And I think there's also
a generational issue here

00:40:08:04 - 00:40:12:02
of younger people
just being much more comfortable with it.

00:40:12:02 - 00:40:15:01
And that's a line
where you just have to test it,

00:40:15:01 - 00:40:18:13
bottom line always being it's a value exchange.

00:40:18:13 - 00:40:19:19
Yeah. Thank you.

00:40:19:19 - 00:40:24:22
You know, one of the things
that this may bring about is user fatigue.

00:40:24:22 - 00:40:27:08
So how do marketing professionals

00:40:27:08 - 00:40:31:10
understand and avoid user fatigue?

00:40:31:10 - 00:40:35:23
How do, how do they also make sure
that everything is safe and user-friendly

00:40:35:23 - 00:40:39:18



for their people and their products?

00:40:39:18 - 00:40:41:09
I'm not sure I understand what you mean

00:40:41:09 - 00:40:44:14
by user fatigue, but if it's just,

00:40:44:14 - 00:40:48:17
you know, too many interactions,
people are going to start tuning out.

00:40:48:17 - 00:40:49:14
We actually

00:40:49:14 - 00:40:54:14
did a study at Aetna
looking at the number of contacts

00:40:54:14 - 00:40:59:13
that we had with an individual
and how often they engaged.

00:40:59:13 - 00:41:01:01
And it was quite interesting.

00:41:01:01 - 00:41:06:02
As soon as we hit over four interactions
in a month, it plummeted

00:41:06:02 - 00:41:09:04


and basically people
just thought it was all spam.

00:41:09:04 - 00:41:12:05
It was useless
because there was just too much stuff.

00:41:12:05 - 00:41:16:19
And so we started to think about
customer contact as a scarce resource

00:41:16:19 - 00:41:20:09
that we needed to prioritize when,

00:41:20:09 - 00:41:23:23
whom we would, when we would...

00:41:23:23 - 00:41:26:13
And that, you hear a lot of terms
like next best action.

00:41:26:13 - 00:41:31:18


That's a nice language for,
you know, what to do next with somebody.

00:41:31:18 - 00:41:34:09
But if you're really managing right,

00:41:34:09 - 00:41:39:03
you should be thinking about
the next best action and make tradeoffs

00:41:39:03 - 00:41:43:09
that it's not okay
to just have one part of the company

00:41:43:09 - 00:41:45:23
just pitch crap at customers
of another division.

00:41:45:23 - 00:41:50:16
And if it's really not in that customer's
best interest versus the other thing,

00:41:50:16 - 00:41:55:01
things that you can do for that customer,
and sometimes there's really tough

00:41:55:01 - 00:42:02:00


tradeoffs that you have to make
in terms of actual access to customers.

00:42:02:00 - 00:42:04:23
Those are some
of the things that come up along the way,

00:42:04:23 - 00:42:09:18
which is managing
customer communication streams

00:42:09:18 - 00:42:11:14
and being smart about that.

00:42:11:14 - 00:42:14:09
It often happens
in multi-division companies

00:42:14:09 - 00:42:18:00
where everybody wants to hit
the same customers as often as possible

00:42:18:00 - 00:42:20:13
because they have some kind
of relationship with the brand.

00:42:20:13 - 00:42:23:23
And that's where often centers of excellence

00:42:23:23 - 00:42:28:03
in a marketing organization do set up
things like we did. We had a customer

00:42:28:03 - 00:42:31:06
communications council that set up a hierarchy

00:42:31:06 - 00:42:33:22
of what would go to whom so that

00:42:33:22 - 00:42:37:10



we weren't spamming them anymore.

00:42:37:10 - 00:42:38:14
Thank you, David.

00:42:38:14 - 00:42:42:03



Can you speak to your 70/20/10 rule?

00:42:42:03 - 00:42:46:15
Yeah, sure...

00:42:46:15 - 00:42:50:13
If you've got cool tools

00:42:50:13 - 00:42:53:10
and you're not set up as an organization

00:42:53:10 - 00:42:57:17
to think about how you would work together

00:42:57:17 - 00:43:01:03
to manage somebody,
those cool tools are kind of useless.

00:43:01:03 - 00:43:02:06
And so

00:43:02:06 - 00:43:07:17
the operational capabilities to

00:43:07:17 - 00:43:14:09
use this stuff are more significant
than the tools themselves.

00:43:14:09 - 00:43:19:12
Because I bet there's a lot of large
companies that have Salesforce, Adobe,

00:43:19:12 - 00:43:22:20


they have every possible tool
that they need.

00:43:22:20 - 00:43:25:23
They are not getting the value
out of those.

00:43:25:23 - 00:43:29:10
Often it's because they're not managing

00:43:29:10 - 00:43:33:02
in terms of bringing together
the experience.

00:43:33:02 - 00:43:36:21
So there's a term we use a lot now
which are called Agile teams.

00:43:36:21 - 00:43:40:15
It comes from software 
development of having

00:43:40:15 - 00:43:44:01
a group of people
working together towards a goal.

00:43:44:01 - 00:43:47:16
They use scrum teams, things like that,

00:43:47:16 - 00:43:53:13


where they're managing in tight cycles,
often as short as a week or two weeks.

00:43:53:13 - 00:43:59:17
We actually set up Agile marketing
for four different parts of our business

00:43:59:17 - 00:44:02:09
in different customer segments,

00:44:02:09 - 00:44:04:20
and we pointed them towards journeys.

00:44:04:20 - 00:44:08:22
One of the biggest ones for us
being everything about onboarding,

00:44:08:22 - 00:44:13:17
and those Agile teams
have a backlog of things

00:44:13:17 - 00:44:18:10
that are going to test, ideas, areas
that are going to innovate,

00:44:18:10 - 00:44:22:06
and they are working together
to constantly see what works

00:44:22:06 - 00:44:23:21



and what doesn't.

00:44:23:21 - 00:44:25:21
So, for example, our teams across

00:44:25:21 - 00:44:30:10
all of the Agile teams,
everybody had an 11 a.m.

00:44:30:10 - 00:44:34:18
stand-up for their team
where they would all look at the data,

00:44:34:18 - 00:44:38:05
see what they've learned
from the last day, and figure out

00:44:38:05 - 00:44:41:21
what the implications of it are for what
they should be doing going forward.

00:44:41:21 - 00:44:44:19
And we had cross-functional teams

00:44:44:19 - 00:44:51:06
working together from, for example,
our call center, our agent,

00:44:51:06 - 00:44:55:16
or we had third-party agent,
agent management, marketing, analytics,

00:44:55:16 - 00:44:58:16
we had finance, somebody
from finance often in there,

00:44:58:16 - 00:45:03:03


because decisions would have to be made
that could require more funding or not.

00:45:03:03 - 00:45:04:05
And the finance people 

00:45:04:05 - 00:45:06:03
helped us do the business case.

00:45:06:03 - 00:45:08:15
We had legal people on top.

00:45:08:15 - 00:45:12:17
So working together towards goals in fast

00:45:12:17 - 00:45:15:18
cycles makes a huge difference.

00:45:15:18 - 00:45:22:00
And having looked at the processes
behind that, to get rid of everything

00:45:22:00 - 00:45:26:01
that slows you down
is just as important to moving fast.

00:45:26:01 - 00:45:29:23
So what's the point of having real time
data that tells you

00:45:29:23 - 00:45:34:02
there's a problem with your app
if you can't act on it quickly? 

00:45:34:02 - 00:45:36:09
So the technology, yeah,

00:45:36:09 - 00:45:39:10
that's valuable, but you got to act on it.

00:45:39:10 - 00:45:42:05
And so you need the organizational
processes to do that. 

00:45:42:05 - 00:45:43:07
Thank you. So you need the organizational
processes to do that. Thank you.

00:45:43:07 - 00:45:49:13
So you worked at Aetna and what event
or was there a performance issue?

00:45:49:13 - 00:45:53:15
Maybe it was market
share or whatever that compelled

00:45:53:15 - 00:45:57:18


you to embark on
this path or was it organic?

00:45:57:18 - 00:46:01:17
There was a very major issue,

00:46:01:17 - 00:46:04:23
which was as an insurance company.

00:46:04:23 - 00:46:09:04
So I was brought on as the first Chief
Marketing Officer at Aetna in 2016.

00:46:09:04 - 00:46:13:19
Marketing was not a very major strategic
part of the company.

00:46:13:19 - 00:46:17:10
The CEO, Mark Bertolini,
though, said we can't just be a commodity

00:46:17:10 - 00:46:20:10
insurer competing
mostly on cost and coverage.

00:46:20:10 - 00:46:25:15
We have to rethink the equation
and help people

00:46:25:15 - 00:46:30:00
lower health care costs and help
people get healthier.

00:46:30:00 - 00:46:32:18



Make the system work.

00:46:32:18 - 00:46:36:05
And so that required
a very different attitude

00:46:36:05 - 00:46:39:06
that would look at the brand...

00:46:39:06 - 00:46:42:19
And as we started doing it,
we saw which processes were in our way.

00:46:42:19 - 00:46:46:23
We saw what data we needed,
we saw what tools we would need.

00:46:46:23 - 00:46:48:22
We started with it pretty manually.

00:46:48:22 - 00:46:53:11
It wasn't that fast, but eventually
we started building up the pace,

00:46:53:11 - 00:46:59:19
and within, and within two years,
we had over $50 million in incremental

00:46:59:19 - 00:47:03:20
profit from those kinds of actions.
So it was serious.

00:47:03:20 - 00:47:07:11
And then we started expanding
that to areas like small business sales,

00:47:07:11 - 00:47:11:11
Medicare sales, various
other parts of the business as well.

00:47:11:11 - 00:47:15:04
But a lot of it came from
how do we engage to create

00:47:15:04 - 00:47:19:00


a different kind of health care journey
and different relationship with us?

00:47:19:00 - 00:47:21:00
Awesome.

00:47:21:00 - 00:47:22:11
Thank you so much.

00:47:22:11 - 00:47:25:13
We only have so many questions
to choose from here.

00:47:25:13 - 00:47:30:05
I really applaud Rachel because
I don't know how she manages it all.

00:47:30:05 - 00:47:31:10
I'm going to ask this one.

00:47:31:10 - 00:47:34:21
Is there a cultural or a leadership
profile for better 

00:47:34:21 - 00:47:36:16
customer service businesses?

00:47:36:16 - 00:47:39:17



Is there, is there a certain profile?

00:47:39:17 - 00:47:43:19
You know, lots of different leaders
whom I've met, I think one of the biggest

00:47:43:19 - 00:47:50:08
ones is people who are always asking,
what's the impact to the customer?

00:47:50:08 - 00:47:54:13
What data do
we have on the impact to the customer?

00:47:54:13 - 00:47:58:20
And is there actually a tradeoff where

00:47:58:20 - 00:48:03:23
we're trying to make more money
but the customer is not better off?

00:48:03:23 - 00:48:08:22
And putting that on the table
for actual discussion,

00:48:08:22 - 00:48:13:00
I was very lucky to have two 
consecutive CEOs,

00:48:13:00 - 00:48:17:07
Mark Bertolini and then Karen Lynch,
who became the CEO of CVS,

00:48:17:07 - 00:48:21:00
who were very, very, we call them members,

00:48:21:00 - 00:48:27:02
member-oriented, who were always putting
those kinds of questions on the table,

00:48:27:02 - 00:48:28:14
constantly pushing for data.

00:48:28:14 - 00:48:32:15
And frankly, they also changed our incentive plan.

00:48:32:15 - 00:48:36:16
20% of executive bonuses were tied

00:48:36:16 - 00:48:40:13
to various kinds of customer 
satisfaction measures.

00:48:40:13 - 00:48:43:06
That's serious. That gets attention.

00:48:43:06 - 00:48:46:05
We first had to put the capabilities
in place to manage it,

00:48:46:05 - 00:48:50:09
so I was in charge of getting that set up,

00:48:50:09 - 00:48:55:14
and then we started to look at the data,
see what the baselines were

00:48:55:14 - 00:48:58:12
and start setting targets.
And so when you have everyone

00:48:58:12 - 00:49:02:08
around the leadership table,
20% of their bonus depending on this,

00:49:02:08 - 00:49:08:09
that gets serious and people play ball.
Thank you, David.

00:49:08:09 - 00:49:12:13
One final question
and we only have time for one more.

00:49:12:13 - 00:49:17:09
Many organizations have data but struggle
to translate that data into insight.

00:49:17:09 - 00:49:20:09
Poor interpretation of data
can be quite misleading and consume

00:49:20:09 - 00:49:24:06
a substantial amount
of organizational resources at best,

00:49:24:06 - 00:49:27:00
or misguide the organization at worst.

00:49:27:00 - 00:49:30:18
Do you have any suggestions
for ensuring that insights generated from

00:49:30:18 - 00:49:35:13


data are both accurate
and generate high impact?

00:49:35:13 - 00:49:36:19
Well, accuracy

00:49:36:19 - 00:49:40:12
is hard to say, per se,
besides, in some respects,

00:49:40:12 - 00:49:46:00
having people who really understand
the business doing the data analysis.

00:49:46:00 - 00:49:49:23
I think one of the most important things
is the analytics

00:49:49:23 - 00:49:54:13
cannot be people in the back room
who are just crunching numbers,

00:49:54:13 - 00:49:58:04
but really tied to the business,

00:49:58:04 - 00:50:02:00
understanding what is actually 
happening with customers,

00:50:02:00 - 00:50:06:04
putting it in the context of the business
where the business is trying

00:50:06:04 - 00:50:12:09
to figure out tradeoffs, priorities
from that. So marrying analytics

00:50:12:09 - 00:50:16:10
with business priorities
is one of the most powerful ways.

00:50:16:10 - 00:50:20:05
It's also then the best way
to make sure stuff happens because

00:50:20:05 - 00:50:23:01
business people have been part of this

00:50:23:01 - 00:50:26:02
and they actually see the opportunity.

00:50:26:02 - 00:50:29:08
And then if you're in the kinds of
Agile teams I'm

00:50:29:08 - 00:50:32:21
talking about, where you've got targets,
you're looking for insights

00:50:32:21 - 00:50:36:17


that can move the needle,
you're going to test things out.

00:50:36:17 - 00:50:39:12
I think one of the great things
about some of the new A.I.

00:50:39:12 - 00:50:42:09
technologies is it allows you to test

00:50:42:09 - 00:50:44:03
and to

00:50:44:03 - 00:50:48:09
actually innovate in a lower cost, 
lower risk way.

00:50:48:09 - 00:50:53:04
So it makes the pain
of a misguided insight lower

00:50:53:04 - 00:50:56:12


if you can test on a small scale
metric and manage it.

00:50:56:12 - 00:50:59:06
Wonderful.

00:50:59:06 - 00:51:00:07
Thank you so much, David.

00:51:00:07 - 00:51:03:03
I'm going to turn it back over to Maneesh,
who will close us out.

00:51:03:03 - 00:51:05:20



Really appreciate it.

00:51:05:20 - 00:51:08:10



Sure.

00:51:08:10 - 00:51:10:15
It takes, it takes me five minutes, David,

00:51:10:15 - 00:51:14:16
to unmute and put myself back on camera.

00:51:14:16 - 00:51:17:20
So keep clicking that button
and it just doesn't come out.

00:51:17:20 - 00:51:22:00
So, David, what a wonderful conversation.

00:51:22:00 - 00:51:23:14
Thank you so much.

00:51:23:14 - 00:51:27:10
Thank you for sharing your research,
your perspectives, your experiences

00:51:27:10 - 00:51:31:13
in the various businesses and roles
that you have been in,

00:51:31:13 - 00:51:36:09
from Aetna
to CVS to McKinsey to BCG, using A.I.

00:51:36:09 - 00:51:40:00


to deliver a more personal, personalized
customer experience.

00:51:40:00 - 00:51:44:12
I think I speak for all of us,
my colleagues and anyone else on the call,

00:51:44:12 - 00:51:49:04
that I think higher education
can certainly benefit from, from

00:51:49:04 - 00:51:50:08
all the, all the,

00:51:50:08 - 00:51:53:16
all the experiences and all the activities
that you're undertaking.

00:51:53:16 - 00:51:55:05
Most definitely.

00:51:55:05 - 00:51:58:13
And I think we've got,
we've got ways to catch up to where

00:51:58:13 - 00:52:02:04
the Aetnas and the CEOs of the world are.
But I think it's great insight.

00:52:02:04 - 00:52:03:22
Thank you so much for taking the time.

00:52:03:22 - 00:52:08:19
And, you know, in the future,
let's hook you up for a Boston Tea Party.

00:52:08:19 - 00:52:12:23
As they mentioned on Friday,
we will collapse our schedules together.

00:52:12:23 - 00:52:15:11
And still there is a chance
to have a cup of tea with you in Boston.

00:52:15:11 - 00:52:18:17


So, David, it has been, it's
been my honor hosting you.

00:52:18:17 - 00:52:23:08
Thank you so much for taking the time
to speak with all of us.

00:52:23:08 - 00:52:24:10
Appreciate it.

00:52:24:10 - 00:52:26:01
And as

00:52:26:01 - 00:52:29:12
we close out
this edition of Vantage Point,

00:52:29:12 - 00:52:31:22
we encourage
all of you to stay tuned in the future

00:52:31:22 - 00:52:36:09
for future events and visit
our ERAU Worldwide YouTube channel

00:52:36:09 - 00:52:39:04
for on-demand
recordings of the past events.

00:52:39:04 - 00:52:42:18
So until then, I wish everybody safe

00:52:42:18 - 00:52:45:06
health and safe well-being. 
So take care, everyone.

00:52:45:06 - 00:52:47:05
Have a great evening. David, once more.

00:52:47:05 - 00:52:50:04
Thank you so much. My pleasure.
Thank you.

00:52:50:04 - 00:52:51:10



Goodbye.